tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36284819.post3132272722744338959..comments2024-03-09T10:58:56.668+02:00Comments on constitutionally speaking: On Warlords and democratsPierre de Voshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17861888910368295788noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36284819.post-20518657013889263282007-06-11T10:01:00.000+02:002007-06-11T10:01:00.000+02:00Is that why they call them 'whips'?Yes, I agree, f...Is that why they call them 'whips'?<BR/>Yes, I agree, for anyone with a conscience it can be rather (or more than) trying to vote for something you don't believe in. Unfortunately, many current MP's are there just for the money ('Gravy Train'), and they don't care about their constituencies' wishes. I also agree that a mixed system as proposed by Van Zyl Slabbert would be a step in the right directionAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36284819.post-88899583193611441282007-06-07T15:30:00.000+02:002007-06-07T15:30:00.000+02:00Quite a few Members of different parties have left...Quite a few Members of different parties have left Parliament because they were not happy. This is only partly to blame on the proportional representation system. Unlike in the USA, South Africa (following a strict version of the Westminster system) adhere to strict party discipline and the whips make sure back bench members vote the party line. For anyone with a conscience, this can be rather trying....Pierre de Voshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17861888910368295788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36284819.post-25201321656104481502007-06-07T08:22:00.000+02:002007-06-07T08:22:00.000+02:00Didn't Pregs Govender also leave parliament becaus...Didn't Pregs Govender also leave parliament because she became so disillusioned with it all?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36284819.post-69083365150018519632007-06-06T10:30:00.000+02:002007-06-06T10:30:00.000+02:00Michael, I agree. That is why I support the Van Zy...Michael, I agree. That is why I support the Van Zyl Slabbert proposals which provided for a mixed system: multi member constituencies on the one hand AND a list from which minority parties could "top up" their MPs to ensure more or less exact proportional representation. A bit like the present local government electoral system.Pierre de Voshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17861888910368295788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36284819.post-28461881680439538152007-06-06T10:01:00.000+02:002007-06-06T10:01:00.000+02:00One problem with a constituency MP system: the off...One problem with a constituency MP system: the official opposition, without the aggregating benefits of PR, would retain only a handful of seats in Parliament.Michael Osbornehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04075293159079052802noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36284819.post-74157176014029218522007-06-06T08:05:00.000+02:002007-06-06T08:05:00.000+02:00Thanks for an open discussion of these important i...Thanks for an open discussion of these important issues. I feel in our public discourses, these kinds of debates and reasoning is largely absent. Too often people censure themselves.Thomas Michael Blaserhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00412101900050074061noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36284819.post-87713303334064797122007-06-05T11:49:00.000+02:002007-06-05T11:49:00.000+02:00I think the issue is not so much about consequence...I think the issue is not so much about consequences of democracy in the ANC, and more about the extreme difficulties of governing a country like South Africa with its bedeviled history and the vast discrepancies between rich and poor still mostly along racial lines. This is a situation ripe for demagoguery and Warlordism...Pierre de Voshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17861888910368295788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36284819.post-59955843754912895872007-06-05T07:29:00.000+02:002007-06-05T07:29:00.000+02:00I can't exactly recall the sequence of events when...I can't exactly recall the sequence of events when Andrew Feinstein left SCOPA and then Parliament. I seem to recall that the ANC dropped him from SCOPA, and he resigned from Parliament afterwards. So it can happen...<BR/><BR/>Your friends betray a worrying lack of confidence in the consequences of democracy for the ANC.DA Malhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02768331722991050425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36284819.post-80447877017486560012007-06-05T07:16:00.000+02:002007-06-05T07:16:00.000+02:00Steve, I am also a bit torn on this topic. I insti...Steve, I am also a bit torn on this topic. I instinctively think that at least some form of constituency MP system should be introduced for the National Assembly. Without real elected representatives it is difficult to see how MP's will really be responsive to the people. But if <A HREF="http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/Politics/0,,2-7-12_2124038,00.html" REL="nofollow">one looks at the way the members of the ANC argue and pull in different directions</A>, one wonders whether it would be good for the ANC (and the moment also for South Africa) to have such a system in place.Pierre de Voshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17861888910368295788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36284819.post-55509137708421093582007-06-04T23:37:00.000+02:002007-06-04T23:37:00.000+02:00Fascinating topic.I think there are many renegade ...Fascinating topic.<BR/><BR/>I think there are many renegade ANC MPs but the ANC Mbeki-ites do not tolerate dissent. <BR/><BR/>When Lekota spoke out against Zimbabwe he was viciously attacked by the Mbeki-ites. <BR/><BR/>At the moment the MPs have no say. The Cabinet legislates and executes. Parliament merely rubber stamps Cabinet decisions.<BR/><BR/>The point as you say is, maybe its for the best. But that is short term thinking.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36284819.post-18933272021204279222007-06-04T21:39:00.000+02:002007-06-04T21:39:00.000+02:00hi a buddy just mailed me this please d to see you...hi a buddy just mailed me this please d to see you guys are doing your bit in cyber space keep it up!<BR/><BR/>i will send you my blogs maybe the comments can flow about issues on environmental issues and responsiveness of some of the institutions that can look after our rights iro environment and the links tween this and the constitutionBoratsFriendinAfricahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02225527111760770280noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36284819.post-67819362241579579062007-06-04T21:28:00.000+02:002007-06-04T21:28:00.000+02:00mooi so laat die klomp weet wat om hulle aangaanmooi so laat die klomp weet wat om hulle aangaanAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com